The eradication of dad; madness, badness and the impact on children

This morning I opened my inbox to find a breathtaking piece about the NHS removal of the word dad from its Ready Steady Baby Guide after a complaint that the word was discriminating against same sex couples.

Now I might be mistaken, but when we talk about same sex parenting, are we talking about men as well as women, or are we just talking about lesbian couples here. Because forgive me if I am mistaken, but unless men who are bringing up baby in a same sex parenting relationship have also chosen to ditch the word dad in favour of male mother and partner, are they not also going to be left feeling that they too are invisible in this generic guide to parenting?

It may not be fashionable but I am going to say it anyway. The other half of the genetic code that causes a baby to be born into this world is provided by sperm and sperm can, currently, only be produced by men. That makes men in my book, dad. I come from a time when donor children were only just starting to arrive in the world, I had many lesbian and gay friends in the eighties who decided to be mum and dad together. The children of those friends strike me these days as being wholly rounded and capable human beings. They are aware of their genetic identity, they know that they have a mum and a dad, they know that their birth was the result of a decision together to make that happen. Those children were brought up by mum and her partner and dad and his partner, the result was that the children enjoyed multiple attachments and strong relationships with significant other adults in their lives. No-one considered that the existence of dad was in any way offensive and certainly not discriminatory.

These days, it seems, there is not only an increase in same sex parenting, but also, alongside that, an increase in the desire by some same sex couples to eradicate the fact that the child ever had or ever will have knowledge or access to the other half of their genetic identity, their biological dad.

In a world where too many fathers are already being pushed out of their children’s lives by divisive and discriminatory legislation, this seems to me to be a deliberate act against the child and its right to know its origins. As such, this action by the NHS is tantamount to madness. It might offend some lesbian couples that the word dad is used in this guide, I am offended by the madness that enables the presence of the other half of a child’s genetic heritage, to be wiped wholesale from such a parenting guide.

Elsewhere, the twittersphere has been alive with kind of anti male vitriol that usually emanates from the venomous threads on Mumsnet. The target of the attacks is the character Tyrone Dobbs from Coronation Street who is, by all accounts, experiencing violence at the hands of his partner Kirsty. Reading some of the hundreds of tweets about this which were brought to my attention via Manchester Survivors reminds me just how acceptable hatred of men is in our society. The fact that the character Tyrone is being hurt is made fun of, laughed at, justified and glorified, the fact that this is coercive, directive, domestic violence is constantly challenged. Just like the people who refuse to accept the stats on DV against men in the training that we deliver, the underlying theme is that a man being beaten up or hurt or even killed is somehow not real domestic violence. If a man is experiencing domestic violence he must deserve it, if a woman is experiencing it, we have to believe her. What hope for men in this situation when such levels of discrimination fly freely through our social media?

Finally this week, having spent the last two days working with the most amazing group of parents, I thought I would share with you the impact of all this hatred and all of this determined eradication of men and fathers from the world.

In a two day workshop for FNF on parental alienation, I lead a group of parents experiencing alienation, through a journey of understanding, learning and most of all sharing. I am honoured to have had the privilege of working with each one of those parents, each of whom shared their stories, their journey and their deep and abiding love for their children. Most of the parents in the room were dads but we had mums too, two of whom were alienated just like their male counterparts. During one part of the weekend, one of the women in the group shared with us the fact that she had been alienated from her father for many years by the actions of her mother. We sat in absolute silence, as she told us of the impact of that upon her heart, her soul and her very existence. Caught between two parents at war, a mother who could alienate and a father who could not get over what had been done to him, her experiencing of reuniting with him was made difficult because he was still stuck in the pain of the past. This adult child, removed from her father by the actions of her mother and the support and the sanction of state legislation, told us that today she doesn’t have a real relationship with either her mother or her father. Her anger with her mother at what had been done and her father’s inability to recover had made things too difficult.

The impact of what we have done for the past forty years and what we still continue to allow to be done to our children in the removal of their father and the acceptance of the hatred against men was present in that room. I grieve for this adult child, made orphan whilst her parents are still living and for all of the children for whom a father, in name or in flesh is seen as unnecessary. How long before we recognise that the wilful and determined eradication of dad in children’s lives, is nothing short of abuse?

38 comments

  1. pauldmanning · May 28, 2012

    Our country is going mad, the world is going mad, this is political correctness gone mad. Soon, fathers will be relegated to the level of a number that we will have to have tattoed on our arms. The words, “dad” and “father” will be whispered lowly in the new modern family, for fear of big brother’s listening and watching and then coming to kick the door in to arrest the perpetrator who dared to utter such a foul word, yes to take them away, perhaps to room 101. I assure you this country is buggered and we will sit and watch it complacently, won’t we? I AM NOT A NUMBER, I AM A DAD AND A FATHER!

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    • karenwoodall · May 30, 2012

      sending you my ongoing support Paul. K

      Like

  2. stephen callard · May 28, 2012

    as a once much loved dad by both male and female children my concern is for my son’s future and society relationship with him im utterly speechless.

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    • karenwoodall · May 30, 2012

      Me too Stephen. K

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  3. Charlie · May 28, 2012

    Unbelievable! What about opposite sex couples being discriminated against with the omission? Who were the people that drafted the new NHS literature? They should be named and casigated for the ill-conceived and frankly absurd waste of taxpayers money. How can we all believe that the NHS is safe hands with idiots like these? Run a health service?, they can’t even write a pamphlet properly.

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    • karenwoodall · May 30, 2012

      Its very sad indeed Charlie, a waste of time, money and fatherhood. K

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  4. phil · May 28, 2012

    Very sad state of affairs… One can see the progression and development of Political Correctness through the decades.. In our current politically correct sanitised society It had to happen.. The removal of the words “Father” or “Dad” … A bit like Health and Safety continuously being taken to the extreme or “Happy Christmas” becoming obsolete as it offends. My take is that we are still waiting to see the reversal of all or any of these insane trends.. and unless there is a loud political change from the top, nothing will happen. The situation will continue to deteriorate by the actions of individuals who are “playing safe” to avoid expensive litigation or being given their marching orders if they get it wrong! It may not be written in the Law of this land, but no one today in the public or private sector will put their neck out and say what they really think. We as a society have been conditioned not to take any kind of risks.. Is there any kind of hope for the future?

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    • karenwoodall · May 30, 2012

      There is hope Phil, there has to be a turning point and I can see some signs of change, there are some ears listening, we have to keep on speaking out. K

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  5. pauldmanning · May 29, 2012

    If I may Karen I’d like to use your blog to post something I posted elsewhere about the recent BBC programme that was on the subject of how expert witnesses are being used in the family courts and generally. It seems that the judiciary are starting, at last, to get a little concerned about their antics and certainly recent articles in the paper have brought the publics attention to many abuses that these so called experts have formulated against many innocent parents. I know I am piggy backing your blog to publicise this, I hope you don’t mind, perhaps your readers may find it informative.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18187706

    Lets face it expert witnesses are used and manipulated by the organization or person that appointed them and will report and obey whatever their paymasters suggest that they report. The actual idea that these hired guns are free to be objective and honest is a total joke. Over the last 4 years I have battled to see my loving son, in that process I have been to see 3 different psychologists. Each time this occured each expert was allowed to see the report of the previous other, even though I protested that this would lead to biasing them and prejudicing their next report, however I was ignored and the judge didn’t seem to realize that he was really breaking the protocol of expert witness ethic by not adhering to my request.. The result was that the experts basically said the same thing and even copied verbatim each others words and expressions. There is something called the “expert witnesses protocol” published by the Justice council, it outlines that no expert should have access to the work of anothers before he reaches his own conclusions, and even then its still not a good idea that they see others work.. The judges should know that such a protocol exsists and yet they blatantly encourage the disclosure of multiple reports of others to be seen by any expert that later comes along. A few months ago a Dr Ruth Coppard, a psychologist, actually admitted that she had fabricated evidence against an innocent father insuring that the mother got custody of their child because the Family courts now believed that he had autism. Ms Coppard was eventually found out to have lied and the HPC found her guilty and suspended her for 18 months, but why she was not struck of completely for such a serious crime, I will never comprehend! Of late their are just to many parents suffering at the lies and deceit of some of these charlatan experts, many having their children removed on their false decision making, not by a judge, no, but of the expert in question, who seems to be making all the decisions and the judge will just rubber stamp them. this is surely wrong! How much longer must parents suffer the nightmares of losing their chlldren based on the lies of these money grabbing pustuals of corruption.? You only have to look in the newspapers to see countless reports of so called experts that are abusing their power and basically reporting whatever lies the Social services and Cafcass want them to report, and if they don’t? well the gravy train will stop for them won’t it, and they won’t want that will they? And so this sad state of affairs goes on, with more parents like me being left bereaved, sad and feeling suicidal at losing those we love, our own flesh and blood. What is happening to our once great nation? I am now ashamed to be British, why, because of the easily seen corruption that our government continues to turn a blind eye to such as these formulating experts that are devastating parents lives. God bless you my son I fight on till the day I die.

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    • Kat · May 29, 2012

      A report was recently published on expert witness psychological reports in family courts

      http://www.uclan.ac.uk/news/files/FINALVERSIONFEB2012.pdf

      It makes grim reading!

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      • karenwoodall · May 30, 2012

        it is grim reading Kat, though paradoxically, in my work, it is the psychological report that makes the difference and so I do not want expert witnesses to be done away with completely. K

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    • karenwoodall · May 30, 2012

      Piggy back away Paul, no problem. K

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      • Kat · May 30, 2012

        I don’t want expert witnesses done away with at all – I want them to be better. I would like expert witnesses, actively practising in their field doing court work on a part time basis, compensated for the time it takes them but not making a living from it. It works in other countries it must be possible to do here.

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  6. Scott · May 29, 2012

    I’m one of those guys (father) who is quite opinionated and passionate about being a father to a beautiful 5 year old daughter. It really annoys me when I hear this sort of rubbish and its spreading across the UK like wildfire. The thing is who is actually responsible for these ludicrous amendments? These amendments are defeating the object of what nature intended man and woman, marriage , children. It’s gone to far when due to advance in medical science we can pick and choose donors to have children. In many cases the father isn’t named. It’s morally wrong and very scarey this is happening. I know gay people who are dead against same sex couples having children. They believe in what nature intended. I’m right up with them. It’s immoral and selfish.

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    • karenwoodall · May 30, 2012

      Hi Scott, as I said in my article, I have no problem with same sex parenting and no problem with gay men and women choosing to have children together. I know many children of such unions and they are secure in their identity and safe in the knowledge that they have a mother and a father. One of the arguments that has been put forward to me in my work with same sex couples, is that children should not have to conform to believing that the majority family formation of mother and father is the only way of forming families.

      I agree that families can take many different forms and that two women as partners or two men can be a family, however, whatever happens in this world it still takes a man and a woman to create a child and all children will learn that at some point in their lives. If they don’t learn it at home, they will learn it at school or from their friends. Some children in these families are encouraged to think of the man who co-created them as the ‘sperm donor’, I have heard many justifications for this and I have worked with children in these circumstances.

      What strikes me about these children is the confusion that they demonstrate when they reach a certain age. The sperm donor idea means that they have been encouraged to relegate an important part of who they are to an almost meaningless thing. The fact that this person is their father has been airbrushed completely out of their lives and replaced by the idea that the person who does the day to day stuff is their real parent. That works for some children, but for others it is far less successful, particularly for example, when children reach particular ages, when a fathering role, a masculine role in their lives perhaps, could offer something critical to a growing child.

      I can only comment on this from my work with such children and families and it strikes me that what is happening when these families get into difficulty, is that the notion of father and the significance of that has been pushed underground by all members. It comes back to bite them hard.

      I see nothing wrong with children having meaningful relationships between all of the important people in their lives in gay and lesbian families as well as in all other families. I find it concerning that some wish to eradicate the idea and experience of dad completely.

      K

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  7. hobosinfrance · May 29, 2012

    Hi Karen, I am new to reading your blog, but I am so pleased I have been able to access it. My youngest son, father to my youngest grandson, had been battling through the England & Wales Family Courts for justice and common-sense for nearly 3 years. After £22,000+, wasted on a useless UK solicitor who eventually admitted that he was “appalled”…..”out of my depth”…..”haven’t updated for too many years”, and a UK barrister who told my son, “…there’s no point to fighting the system, you will lose everything including contact…”, my son dismissed the services of both so-called professionals and, financially stripped, chose to breach a Court Order so that he could concentrate on raising his son according to the child’s needs. He did not take that latter decision without a lot of deep thinking. Why do I refer to ‘UK professionals’? Well, my son and my grandson are permanently resident in France, as they have been since almost a year before the England & Wales Family Courts became involved in their lives, and as was the child’s mother prior to her fleeing from child abuse criminal charges in France. My grandson’s mother has mental health issues, but those issues were not problematic to the young family until she snapped. During her ensuing tirade, she beat their son until he was bruised and battered, the photos clearly show the black eye that she inflicted on him, in addition to multiple bruises. After 5 years, I still can’t talk or write about this without crying, so you will probably know how difficult it is for my son to even think about it! At that time, my grandson was still only 2 years old, and he was just starting to exhibit signs and symptoms of the ASDs that are now fully apparent; he will celebrate his 8th birthday a little later this year. My son did everything right, he saw to the child first, then he left their son in my care while he went to the police. Our family GP was on the ball, and he was superb. As stated, the mother fled France. To cut short a long, very difficult saga, the mother found a legal aid solicitor who took on her demands for: immediate return of the child to England, and no contact for the father. They attempted to invoke the Hague, they failed. But, that was only the first attempt, over a year later they invoked the Brussels 2, they succeeded. However, by that time, my son had been hounded and harassed by the mother’s solicitor, various Court Orders, a CAFCASS officer who visited France in order to make a report, but she did that on the pretext of holidaying here, she did not have permission from the French Procureur to have contact with my grandchild. The Procureur consulted a Family High Court Judge in Paris and, as the direct result of that consultation and other information that came to light, the Brussels 2 demand was rejected on grounds of 13b. Throughout the saga, my son fought to keep contact going between the mother and their son, telephone contact initially, then he (twice) paid for her to travel to France, and for her accommodation, so that mother and son could have time together, but that contact had to be overseen for the child’s safety. The Procureur agreed to that arrangement and the outstanding child abuse charges were temporarily ‘shelved’, so that the parents could find a way forward without Courts involvement. My son sent copies of all supporting evidence to the England & Wales Court. It never happened. The mother had returned to her previous boyfriend and she became pregnant with his child. The mother didn’t contact my son for over 4 months, even her solicitor was phoning my son’s solicitor to ask if my son had heard from her or if he knew where she could be located. Yet, just over 4 months later, out of the blue, the mother contacted her solicitor and the shambles was back in full swing! They were given leave by the Court to obtain and present a Paediatric/Legal report, based on the hard evidence provided by my son. The report supported my son’s ‘version of events’ regarding the abuse. The Court dismissed the report. The mother started phoning to speak with the child late at night when he was in bed, she was audibly accompanied by a man who swore and made crude comments and strange noises down the phone to my son. All the calls were recorded, and transcripts were written by my son’s solicitor, which he then confirmed to the Court. The Court dismissed the solicitor’s effort. Yet, the Court accepted a single written transcript from the mother, it was a transcript of the contents of a phone call that she had made to my son. The call was made just before 10pm during a weekday evening, she demanded to speak to their son immediately, despite the facts that he was asleep and the following day was a school day. My son refused to wake the child. That transcript was used to invoke the Brussels 2. My son and grandson do not know where the mother lives, her address is “known only to the Court” and to her solicitor, that has been the case throughout the past 4 years. Eighteen months ago, my eldest two children, who live in the UK with their families, were served with Court Orders, they are legally bound to notify the police if they hear from or see their youngest brother and his son.

    There has been a lot of filthy water passing under our bridge during the years, and none of it has been made less dirty by our other pressing problem, homelessness, we were defrauded out of our home in France by unscrupulous sellers and France’s horrendously archaic judicial system. But, my son and grandson are safe and happy, that’s the priority as far as I am concerned. Does my husband agree? Oh yes, a dad is a dad, and the world is (generally, but not always) a happier, safer place when mum and dad are in agreement.

    So, to all fathers out there, who have been given and who will be given, Hell on earth as your parenting backdrop, please don’t give up. One day, the tide will turn, evolution is constant.

    Thank you for your wonderful blog, Karen, I am now a follower. My sincere apologies for hijacking this page, but I need others to be aware that their dreadful, child-abusing and destructive ordeals are not confined to the UK. Where the England & Wales Courts are concerned, there is nowhere in the world to hide, not even when another ‘EU power’ decides the England & Wales Courts got it wrong.

    Kindest regards

    Like

    • karenwoodall · May 30, 2012

      Your story is incredible and I am so pleased that you have shared it with us and that your son and your grandson are safe and well. I hope they stay that way and you and yours are through the worst of it, it has been hell for you, I am stunned by your tenacity, determination and your bravery. Very best wishes K

      Like

  8. Paul · May 29, 2012

    We need a Minister for Normality – someone who can keep this kind of idiocy in check. Also the people behind this stupidity ought to be required to explain themselves, then sacked. Like no fault divorce, responsibility is easily evaded in official circles.

    Another thing, Karen; until official recognition is given to parental alienation, both in family law and child protection, then fathers will continue to face discrimination. Where diagnosed, as it was in my case and by a medical doctor, then it ought to be a reportable form of child abuse. Official child protection guidance should then require the problem to be formally addressed through the statutory provision of services. That would have helped my case considerably. This is something that could be raised by you as a panel member of the government’s working group looking at family law changes. Social services departments would then be forced to confront the bitter truths about alienation rather than, as they do now, keep their head in the sand or, worse and perversely, provide traction to a mother’s false allegations of child sex abuse or domestic violence. What happened to my son and me, was that rather then look into alienation and deal with that, I was questioned by police about child sex abuse offences and my three year old son was interviewed too – an abuse in itself. He then had to be interviewed again on my application to court, by a proper expert this time, before the penny dropped and the truth came out. The official response? Not even a flicker of recognition or acceptance of fault until a two year complaint process finally had the social workers cornered.

    The trick, of course, is how to do this sensibly and proportionately. At present, alienation is largely a denied problem but we don’t want it growing into a sprawling political mess of industrial proportions. Keeping separated fathers in hands-on touch with their children, in terms of both frequency and time, is often all that is required, in my opinion.

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    • karenwoodall · May 30, 2012

      we are always speaking up Paul, always fighting to get things heard, always making sure we are strong enough and big enough to be heard. There is a turning tide right now, which makes speaking up easier, its still not as easy as it should be but having been in this game for twenty years and having said the same stuff over and over and over again for the past twelve, finally now, people who matter are listening. We just need to hold tight, keep on keeping on and supporting each other, we will make this change. K

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  9. Chris Welles · May 29, 2012

    I have firmly held the belief there is an agenda whereby social engineering is deliberately being steered in a direction by some unaccountable untouchable group of people.

    The engineering is designed to cause unrest in all walks of life, not just within the undoing of ‘Families’ and ‘Family Life’ within this Country.

    This is just another example of their tentacles spreading, rotting and destroying the fabric of our society.

    Whilst people continue to sleep walk, this type of nonsense will continue to be challenged by only the few, before, possibly it will be too late to undo.

    Like

    • karenwoodall · May 30, 2012

      Hi Chris,

      not sure the group is faceless and unaccountable so much as visible and unchallenged, either way sleepwalking is a good way of describing what is happening. K

      Like

  10. Paul · May 29, 2012

    Chris, there is no such unaccountable, untouchable group. Life is very much dependent on what we make of it. Such fatalist beliefs as yours leads to despondency and inaction. There are rational reasons why we are where we are with regard to social policy, family law, parenting and so on. The answer to society’s ills is to understand these ills for what they really are in a rational, intellectual sense, then apply yourself, in whatever way you can, big or small, to confront and deal with them.

    Try writing a letter to your MP, for instance, asking him or her to support the rights of separated children to a proper relationship with their fathers. Ask your MP to seek official recognition of the harm to children that alienation represents. Don’t let others do your thinking for you. We’ve already found out, they won’t.

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    • hobosinfrance · May 29, 2012

      Hi Paul, I firmly believe that Chris is totally correct about social engineering. My reasons for supporting what he says are grounded on what I saw and heard in the staff rooms of schools, in head teachers’ offices, as a child protection officer, and during largely unrecorded meetings between educationalists, social workers, CAFCASS Legal representatives, and confused, brow-beaten, terrified parents.

      Yes, the advice to write a letter to an MP is sound, on the surface, but that action will not stop the rot that is growing like a cancer in Britain. Melodramatic words? I know they’re not.

      You’re so right, though, imo, letting others do your thinking is definitely not any way forward. It doesn’t work. However, what sort of ratio do you think is involved when you place those who can do their own rational thinking in a pie chart with those who are unable to think for themselves? That would be an interesting longitudinal study. Parents with low intelligence and even lower educational ability make just as caring, loving, all-protecting parents as their peers with so-called ‘normal’ to high intelligence and educational social standing. But, the former group of predominantly dads is simply not able to engage the rational thinking that the latter group of predominantly dads finds relatively easy. Divide and rule.

      It is my belief that the social structure of Britain is being deliberately manipulated and changed through use of various vehicles. Actions and judgements in the Family Courts and their associated ‘feeders’ and agencies reflect just one sociological perspective in a far greater scheme. The family unit as we know it, with all its diversities and complexities, is losing its identity, and that is the ultimate aim.

      Ridding society of the term of endearment, ‘dad’, is merely another stepping-stone, imo of course.

      Like

    • karenwoodall · May 30, 2012

      Its so difficult for men to speak up together without being accused of being domineering perpetrators. But for sure there is a manipulation of our consciousness about who we are and why we are going on for much of the time. You only have to look at children’s comics, tv programmes, books, to see what is being done. K

      Like

  11. John R · May 29, 2012

    If you look deeper into the cogs of the machine, you may see something even more abhorrent.
    We are currently living in a controlling society. Our liberties are slowly being stripped, we are monitored night and day by various methods, email tracking, CCTV, DNA data bases, browser cookies, HMRC, Councils, credit scoring, Electoral registers, and god knows how many other data bases your details are kept. The nanny state is also getting completely out of control, we are being dumbed down, pampered, and prepared to be silent consumers who obey, and this usually starts in School.
    You are being completely monitored at all times, and you are being kept civil and under control.

    This control mechanism has grown over modern times, it is well documented that this mechanism has been put in place since the 50’s.
    Government = Control.

    It has baffled me as to how a system like Family Law, the family courts, the massive gender bias, the stripping of all male power, and decomposing of the male figure is allowed to continue, it is so blatantly obvious that this is destructive to children, destructive to fathers, destructive to society, and is causing untold heartache and torture for many men across the whole world, why? Why can’t it be seen?
    It isn’t just in the UK this is happening, it is every single developed country in the whole world, is it a coincidence that ever single government is blind to the travesties that are going on despite people literally screaming it their faces, or is it something else?

    Surely in today’s society you would think a government that actually cared for its people would be able to construct a fair system right?

    Before this starts to look like some grand Orwellian conspiracy theory, it isn’t.
    Sir Arthur Conan Doyle said ““Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”

    The government are controlling family break up, not only that they are actively encouraging discord between separated parents through the insane and secret family courts, (secret for this reason). It is a classic ‘divide and rule’ technique that has been used for centuries.

    We also see it here with the removal of the word ‘Father’ from the NHS guideline booklet.
    Strip the male of its position, thus stripping it of power. Deny them the right to see their children, thus blackmailing them to enter the family court arena.
    Encourage women that separation is a viable lifestyle option, and reward them financially with benefits, housing, and other perks, thus keeping them under total control.
    The male has lost control, the woman has lost control. Between them stands the system.

    When the English colonised Africa, they seeded doubt in each tribes minds that their neighbours, (who they had lived side by side in peace with for centuries), were planning to war against the other. All the English had to do was sit back, relax, and watch the tribes destroy each other. This is a time tested, trusted, dirty tactic to destroy harmony and take control. Once the tribes were fully at each other’s throats, then the English could step in and settle disputes, thus gaining complete control without losing a single man and looking like the saviours.

    Sound familiar?

    The family courts, CAFCASS, solicitors, barristers, judges, and everything else connected with this outrages and corrupt system have been conditioned for decades to divide and rule, take control, decide peoples fate, remove all control, and keep them either financially bereft, or financially dependent.

    I’m afraid that on the surface the injustice we see on a daily basis is just the tip of the iceberg, the actual roots of the problem are much deeper, and much more entangled with a larger global control technique that we may never be able to combat.

    One thing I do know is that if something is oppressed, history tells us it fights back.
    I believe it’s only a matter of time before the oppression will worsen and begin to get under the skin of males, fathers, dads, boys, and everything else with a Y chromosome, and they will finally stop taking this crap and take to the streets.

    Like

    • hobosinfrance · May 29, 2012

      Hi John, I was replying to Paul, above, when you posted. Have just read your post, I agree with you.

      Like

    • Gregory- · May 29, 2012

      Divide and conquer. Simples. People united are not easy to control. Oh, and remember credit/debit card usage tracking and oyster. This does not happen by some freak accident. Gold gone it’s the population that’s creating taxes and underwriting credit for the establishment.

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    • karenwoodall · May 30, 2012

      I still believe there is a turning tide, it may be slower than we wish for but it is turning. Now we need to articulate and create the world that we want our children to grow up in. That is our task now, show how it can be done differently. K

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  12. Paul · May 29, 2012

    Developing paranoid thoughts around deliberate anti-father or anti-male social engineering theory, supposedly led by an unknown, unaccountable group to further a perceived aim of reducing men to a state of helotry is, I suggest, not going to advance the cause of sensible family law reform one iota.

    All those groups listed above, headmasters, Cafcass etc are not unknown, unaccountable bodies. On the contrary, they are public, high profile and all, presumably, operate some form of complaint procedure for the disgruntled or hard done-by. I used those procedures myself, to great effect. Similarly, family court proceedings are not intentionally secret either. Proceedings are confidential because current thinking holds that this better serves the children’s welfare interests. I happen to disagree with that myself because I believe this confidentiality protects all the wrong people but whenever I attend court I don’t believe I’m involved in secret proceedings. And nor do the judges. Those latter always have half an eye towards the appellate courts where outcomes of proceedings are published, albeit with names anonymised.

    If you want changes to social policy then make your point with the politicians, national and local, as well as child protection safeguarding groups, because that is what the well-funded single parents and domestic violence lobby groups do so well. There is considerable groundswell for positive change, brought on by the damaging effects of father absence that society is now beginning to suffer from but it will require more than moaning about the sinister behaviour of secret groups operating clandestinely within our midst. That kind of thinking flows from a victim-type mindset, never a good thing for a father to have. It also makes your own children more susceptible to alienation-type reactions.

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    • karenwoodall · May 30, 2012

      I agree Paul that we have to hold the visible people to account and challenge them. Unfortunately, having used the CAFCASS complaint route on behalf of parents I can confirm that there is little done to redress any formal complaints made. The response is often that a decision is made and if you don’t like it its because you are in the wrong and you don’t like the outcomes. I have met with CAFCASS people and worked alongside them, there is an arrogance that comes from being unaccountable, it is quite terrrifying that decisions about children’s lives are being made by untrained and unaccountable people. This, to me, is the facelessness of it that brings paranoia about a deliberate strategy to eradicate parents from children’s lives and destroy families. The truth of it however is that CAFCASS are simply unaccountable and untrained and all efforts to change that have so far failed. K

      Like

      • pauldmanning · May 30, 2012

        Karen I can concur and confirm every word you say here, Cafcass are a law unto themselves and seem to be untouchable and beyond reproach and they want it that way. Unless you have entered in to their joke of a complaints procedure you will not know of the intransigence you will face. I can say that even when presenting them with facts and proof they will still look at you with that robotic stare as if to say, ‘so what, thats just to tuff’! I proved categorically that one of their guardians had fabricated a story about me, words to the effect that I had caused an altercation at a contact centre. Even though I got the contact centre manager to confirm that it never happened, Cafcass still would not admit it was a lie. Nothing was done, and to this day that lie still forms part of a court bundle. Some here are so nieve, the idea that Cafcass can be held accountable in some way is a joke!

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  13. Gregory- · May 29, 2012

    This is a Nation loosing its identity, heritage and humanity. How sad.

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  14. John R · May 30, 2012

    Paul, lobbying, complaining, and writing disgruntled letters have gotten fathers a lot in the last 30 years haven’t they? How far we have come to re-balance the bias, how happy we are that our letters and words have made such a difference? Please, don’t make me laugh.

    I think you raise some good points about the courts being kept secret to protect all the wrong People. Indeed criminal law cases involving children are widely exposed in the media and reported on greatly, why not the family court?

    It’s secret to protect the corrupt, end of story.

    As for paranoid thinking, and victim type mind-set being a product of some misguided feelings of an oppression that doesn’t exist, I disagree.

    I think a victim type mind set is inevitable when so many fathers are being routinely abused by the family courts, and that’s exactly what it is, systematic, blatant, unashamed abuse for fathers and children.
    Victim type mind-set? You better believe it.

    Are men supposed to take it on the chin? Bow down to the injustice? Get shafted and take it? We have done for so many years, but as the injustice gets more severe, and more people are involved in the family courts, (cases are increasing year on year exponentially), the more people will begin to speak out the mass abuse to parents and children, (not to mention extended family and grandparents).

    They cannot keep this down forever, as we have all seen recently, the amount of fathers protesting about the family courts and the degradation of the male role model is increasing at a frightening rate for the authorities.

    We see anti male advertisements on TV every day, the NHS removal of the word father from literature, the anti-male rhetoric form gingerbread and mums-net, even the recent “Great news” that the ’re-wording’ the 1989 children’s act is anti-father, “A child has a right to a relationship with both parents where it is safe”, how disgusting is it that the default starting point for a child’s right to see their father is that he must be proved not to be a dangerous person.

    How sad and how degrading the default position for a male is that they are going to either rape or kill their own child, doesn’t that make you feel slightest bit uneasy?

    This rhetoric might seem extreme, or over the top, but it’s time to remove the thin veneer of political correctness and say it like it is.

    Like

    • pauldmanning · May 30, 2012

      John

      I have to agree with every word you say. I get so mad when fathers are accused of paronia because they complain about the corruption and bias within the court system. The abuse and degridation of fathers is plaint to see and those who say it doesn’t happen are fooling themselves, not to say ignorant. I know all there is to know about being debased, when I tell people that Cafcass wrote to me ordering me not to tell my son that I loved him in my letters and not to tell him I miss him, then I knew for sure I was dealing with evil unfeeling monsters, and still some won’t believe whats going on! You have to experience the evil that is going on, then you will know, until you do, you’ll say “no way that can’t be happening in the good old UK!” They said that in Germany, when behind the back gardens of your everyday German householder the nazi’s were gassing the Jews… no that can’t be happening, can it, not in the the good old fatherland?

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      • rightswithoutresponsibility · May 30, 2012

        Amen Paul. Some days I find it hard not to think “I can’t wait until it happens to the sons of these women / politicians / Cafcass people” etc. I am not by nature a vengeful person and I think I’d be a far more negative person if I actually did think that and believe it but is it the only way? To laugh at these people in 30 years time and say well actually YOU ARE TO BLAME for your son not being able to be called a dad or see his children? Is that when it finally dawns on these feminists/PC idiots?

        Martin

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  15. Paul · May 30, 2012

    Karen, I hold no regard for Cafcass and accept its complaint procedure is probably useless. Cafcass is a body found ‘not fit for purpose’ by an all-parliamentary group and that’s all one really has to say.The only way to deal with their biased reports is smash them in court. You do that by undermining the evidence base which support any poorly-formed assessments and then appeal the decision if the court fails to give due weight to more accurate evidence.

    People, generally speaking, are unaware of the injustices in family law because until if affects them directly, by and large they don’t want to know. People are selfish. And some fathers are too. Once those have got to wherever they want to go, they lose interest in the bigger picture, as I’ve found with a few I’ve helped. Politically-conscious fathers who complain on blogs but stop short of raising the same complaints to their MP’s are defeatist and short-sighted. We should all write letters to MP’s about our personal experience of poor family law and do it again and again if needs be. The law tomorrow hinges on what we do as individuals today.

    Like

    • hobosinfrance · June 1, 2012

      Very often, Paul, by the time a case has reached the Appeal Court, it is too late. I have seen that happen so many times during the past ten years.

      I was once involved in getting a case right the way through the CAFCASS complaints processes, all the way to OFSTED. Two MPs were contacted along that route, one responded, I’m still waiting to hear from the other MP five years on. The MP who did respond was sympathetic, but he was unable to assist, his words not mine. I honestly believe that individual protest will not do any good whatever for the wider, deeper cause. To make the powers that be sit up, listen, and then apply the brakes as the first step forward to meaningful change, there has got to be a much bigger noise, ie the voices of many raised as one voice.

      Karen is quite right. Generally, CAFCASS is unaccountable, with predominantly untrained or poorly trained staff who have no honourable, child-centred code of ethics on which to base their considerations and conclusions. If you have smashed a CAFCASS Reporting officer’s biased recommendations in a Family Court, I sincerely salute you, that could not have been at all easy.

      Like

  16. Bartholomew · May 31, 2012

    This is just unforgivable.

    I have championed the NHS all my life. I thought it was one of this country’s greatest institutions, never mind all the problems and criticisms, and the more sinister aspects (which would only be more pronounced were healthcare privatized).

    This is not political correctness. This is the abuse of LGBT politics to very malicious ends.

    We have seen how the word ‘women’ or women’s issues have been abused for the past couple decades, for instance in the name of war (liberating the Afghani women, for instance). It now seems that certain nutter politicians are also abusing LGBT issues for political ends.

    What a sinister world!

    One again, I am heartened that someone with such humanity as Karen is not only spotting this madness, but not shying away from confronting and exposing it.

    Like

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